Ep 13 - Masters Pt. 1: Scott Borchetta & Scott "Scooter" Braun
Hey, lovers. Welcome to TSPN. Wow. Anna, are you ready for today's episode?
Anna:I don't think I am, but I am more than glad that we are covering a topic that you know a lot about, which is the Scott Borchetta, Scooter Braun, the selling of the masters, and, oh my gosh, so much because I feel like I know a little, but you've not only learned it yourself over the years. You did a lot of homework, I'm guessing.
Jessi:Yes. Over 16 hours of research. So get your popcorn ready because there is a ton of drama that goes along with it.
Anna:Alright. So super excited to get started with that. But first, there was a few things that happened this week. So circling back to right where you left me from our last episode, what has happened, Jessie? I think we had some explicit tracks come out.
Anna:Correct?
Jessi:We did. So Taylor let us know which tracks on tortured poets are explicit, and what that means because I did a TikTok on it, and a lot of people did not know what that meant. What that means is, basically, those are the songs that are gonna have swear words. Right? Yep.
Jessi:The explicit tracks are gonna be track 2, the tortured poet's department, track 4, down bad, Track 6, but daddy, I love him.
Anna:That's a good one. I know that's gonna be one of your favorites. It it is.
Jessi:Track 8, Florida, featuring Florence and the Machine. Track 12, l o m l. Track 13, I can do it with a broken heart. And track 14, the smallest man who ever lived.
Anna:Nice. We love to see some explicit tracks. I feel like that's been, one of those kind of indicators that this is not gonna be light and fluffy, and we're gonna have some some curse words and potentially some drama. And so, Taylor, did she tell us or it really just kinda came out on Apple Music? Was there an announcement that came with it?
Jessi:There wasn't an announcement. I just say she told us because she uploaded it to Apple Music, and
Anna:it had what it had. Yeah. So it came out on Apple Music, and then there was an 8 second track that was released. Eventually, it had sound, and it was just Taylor thanking us for downloading or prerecording and saving to our libraries. But, initially, it was silent, and it went number 1.
Anna:And to me, that said Clara Bow. Clara Bow was a silent movie actress, and then she obviously transitioned into the talkies. We won't get too far into that.
Jessi:You had mentioned Clarabot. And for those of you that don't know, that's track 16. It's called Clarabot. Right now on Apple Music, track 17 is all's fair in love and poetry, and that is the 8 second clip. Yep.
Jessi:So as of right now, the bolter, the manuscript, the albatross, and the black dog is not showing up yet.
Anna:My guess is because they're alternate endings, and we're still I don't know. Maybe the all is fair in love and poetry is, like, the crux of when you choose your ending, but we'll talk a little bit about that here in a bit. Alright. The other thing that happened was we got 500 subscribers on YouTube. We're a little over that now, but that was a huge accomplishment.
Anna:So thank you for everyone who has already subscribed on YouTube. That is a milestone for us. Once Once we get to a1000, we could start actually monetizing through YouTube. And for those that don't know, we're completely self funded and self produced, so monetizing would be a huge opportunity for us to, you know, start to hire out some talent and to get help with editing and all of the things that will allow us to create more content for you more frequently. So absolutely thank you if you're a subscriber.
Anna:And then we also charted pretty high on the US chart, the Australian charts, and also the Canadian charts for the music commentary category for the Apple Podcasts charts, so super exciting there. And we hadn't really tracked our charts until recently because, again, self funded, self produced, we don't know all these things, and so it was super exciting to see that. We've actually peaked higher in the past. But just knowing that this weekend was a big weekend with the double release, really excited to see our name up there in, in the mix with all these podcasts that have been around for a very long time. And so we appreciate everyone who's listening on any of the major podcast networks because they all have their own chart ranking system, and it's it's just super, super eye opening for us.
Anna:And it validates everything we're doing that this is working, and we're gonna keep keep doing it. Oh, and speaking of so if you didn't catch our bonus episode last week, we did release 2. I know when people are listening on the podcast networks, it's really easy to see if there's a new episode because they're in sequential order. But on YouTube, I know a lot of our listeners missed that, so we did a whole bonus episode last week on the reputation era and how it relates to the Roman empire. So definitely catch that if you haven't.
Anna:And we have a ton of episode content that we're gonna be chugging out here in the next several weeks with, Swifty 101 and all of the things that we're planning. So do not assume that it's a single episode drop. There may be times where we drop more than 1 in a day or that we sprinkle them out throughout the week.
Jessi:Yeah. So, another thing that happened since the last episode was the release of the heiress tour movie on Disney plus. Not a lot of surprises. Not much really happened. I know that, you know, some people were clowning about that a little bit, including us.
Jessi:But there was 4 additional songs, surprise songs at the end that I'll just let you know what they were. I can see you, maroon, you were in love, and death by a 1000 cuts. Now the normal surprise songs that were released originally are our song and you're on your own kid.
Anna:So Yep. I can see you stood out to me, especially with what we talked about during our regular feature episode last week with Nancy Drew and all the clues and the mysteries, and that song is very much especially in the music video. It's a spy. It's like a spy mystery type theme.
Jessi:Yeah. That one surprised me, actually. Yeah. I mean, it's not one of her more popular songs. Yeah.
Jessi:I mean, I can see death by a 1000 cuts because that's probably one of her best bridges. You know, our song is from debut, and that's the only thing from debut. Maroon is one of the best songs on midnights. You're on your own kid mentions the friendship bracelets, and that's tour. You were in love surprised me a little bit too.
Anna:Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of people talked about how much she seemed happy when she was singing that and how in love she seemed. So it might just be one of her favorites that she sang that she felt really, captured the moment. Yeah. Alright.
Anna:So kind of circling back to last week, we wanted to touch on a couple things. So we obviously launched the Nancy Drew episode, which did really, really well, and some comments came through and some other things. And so the use of the, like, I would call the Sherlock Holmes emoji, it's the little, like, spy with the magnifying glass. Taylor nation used it whenever they posted about I can see you being a surprise song on the heiress toward movie release, which was perking my ears because I am convinced now that TTPD is like an NYPD. It's more of a, like, a police department or an investigator unit versus what the initial thought was, which is more of like a collegiate or, like, a professor of the department.
Anna:So, super exciting to see that because I feel like that furthers our theory. And one thing that kinda came out because we will edit and post clips of our episodes to TikTok was the one where we were talking about the plot of the secret in the old attic, which is basically where Nancy helps mister March find his son's missing music manuscripts, which clearly is tied to tortured post department because the first variant and the target variant both have that bonus track of the manuscript. Melinda, who is a creator on TikTok too, commented, and she had pointed out that there is the sign on the man wall that if missing, return to Taylor Swift. So the missing music manuscripts, that her, but that was a good kind of note there. And with the alternate ending theory that I have, which is that the bonus tracks all are a different ending of the album, which is because it's the first time she's ever really done this where she's got different bonus tracks for the 4 variants.
Anna:I was talking to my brother today, and he was like, oh, that reminds me of the movie Clue. And I'm like, Clue? I'm like, he didn't even know about the Nancy Drew stuff, and I'm like, so I started looking that up. And what's interesting is in Clue, not only is the movie from the board game, obviously, it was released on December 13, 1985, which is Taylor's birthday. Obviously, she was born in 1989, but December 13th.
Anna:And I believe there are 10 rooms on the board. Ten rooms to the Clue mansion. There are 10 rooms to the lover house. So I don't know. There's something there.
Anna:So if you guys have seen that movie, it's kind of one of those movies that wasn't that well rated, but then became, like, a cult classic. So drop us comments in YouTube or on our Tik Tok and let us know. We'll probably do some more research since this is all very new, but the whole concept of the alternative endings, the 10 different rooms, even the Wikipedia says that when the guests show up, they're given a pseudonym, which is obviously like professor Plum and missus Scarlet and all of that. So, yeah, let us know what you think with Clue because if I am right and tortured poets to this whole puzzle.
Jessi:Yeah. So I know that sometimes on here, we are shouting out some small businesses, primarily on Etsy. So let us know if you have a small business. Contact me on my personal TikTok, Jesse SwiftTok, and we have 2 small business features that I wanted to show you guys. The first one is very tortured poets related.
Jessi:It's these pen quill pen nib earrings. Very cute. Can you see that?
Anna:Yeah. You can. They're like the little tips of a quill pen. They've got the little angle. They're beautiful.
Anna:Yeah. You can see them.
Jessi:Yeah. They even have, like, etchings on them. They're absolutely detailed and gorgeous. It is from Yuri and Ulya. They run an Etsy shop called 7 dots art, and we will have a link on our website to this shop.
Anna:Yep. So that'll be on tspodnetwork.com, and then we actually have a special code for them. It is from Jessica, so f r o m jessica. And when you use that code, what do you get, Jesse?
Jessi:10% off the earrings.
Anna:Awesome. Love it. Love it. And then we got another one to shout out before we get
Jessi:to the main event here? We do. We have another Etsy shop that sent me this. Oh, I like the letter. Yeah.
Jessi:It's a key chain. All is fair in love and poetry. It says TTPD at the bottom. I believe they had to alter this just a little bit because it got taken down because I think of the TTPD part. But their shop, it's Julie and Mackenzie who run it, and it is styled for Swifties.
Jessi:So if you use t s p n, all caps, 13, you're gonna get 13% off of the key chain. Cute. It'll be linked on our website.
Anna:Awesome. Alright. Well, thank you to both of those Etsy creators for generously gifting those to us and then, of course, for giving our listeners those codes. So like Jesse said, it's dspodnetwork.com, and then there's a shop the pod page where we're starting to add all of the creators who have Taylor themed merch that we are featuring. So awesome.
Anna:So before we get to the main event, I do wanna tease that we have an upcoming episode with an interview that I cannot wait for you guys to hear about. We are not we're not even gonna tell you who it is because we're so excited. So I do wanna really quick though read a couple messages that we got in the past week because not only does this, like, fill my cup and give us so much joy, but it kind of helps to plant the seed of what our big interview will be. One of them being from a woman named Jennifer, who messaged us on Instagram, and she said, my daughter and I love your podcast. We watch every Friday, and it's our time to spend together and talk more Taylor ideas.
Anna:It's so nice to be a part of the community. Thank you both so much for your time in making the episodes. So that, like, like, that melts my heart because it's more than just us and theorizing and Easter egging, but the idea that she's using it to bond with her daughter and to spend more time. And then we got a message from Brynn on TikTok. We have closed our TikTok messaging on, the TSPN page so you guys can message us personally.
Anna:We each have our own accounts. But Brynn says, greetings. I'm a relatively new Swifty, 9 months. I'm 52 years old with a group of friends that wondered if you could do a series on Easter eggs, how they began, breaking down the eras, and taking us on the journey. Some of us have granddaughters that we would love to bond with and teach them the love.
Anna:I'm gonna start crying. Fuck. Some of us have granddaughters that we would love to bond with and to teach them the lore. If you could point us in the right direction. Thank you so much.
Anna:And so I did message Brynn back. Absolutely. That is our Swifty 101 series that we are already working against. But, again, that theme of that a lot of our listeners are using our podcast to help them bond or spend time with their daughters and granddaughters. Our special interview is with somebody whose child, I won't say son or daughter, child is part of the Era store.
Anna:So, yeah, we're so excited. And it's somebody that actually does have a following on TikTok and, has made their own kind of name and following. So very, very thrilled to have that person join us. Alright, Jesse. So let's transition into Scooter Braun and the Scott Borchetta story.
Anna:So what do you got for us?
Jessi:Okay. So what I have is I have divided this into 3 different parts. Okay? So the first part, I am going to be telling you who Scott Borchetta is, and who Scooter Braun is, and the differences between those two men, and the different roles they've played with Taylor. The second part of this is going to be all about start to finish, how she lost her masters, how she left big machine records, and how she rerecorded, and why, and all the drama that went along with it.
Jessi:The 3rd piece of this will be lyrical analysis from songs that I believe to be about certain parts of this journey. So today, on today's episode, we are gonna be talking about the first part and that's Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun.
Anna:Oh, a multiparter. So, yeah, so we'll do the foundational pieces here. There's gonna I'm sure there's gonna be plenty to to dive into. And then that second and third part, guys, we will put into next week's regular episodes. We'll talk a little bit more about that later.
Anna:But for now, Jesse, let's take it away. Who the hell is Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun?
Jessi:Okay. So just a very quick overview before I get into it. A lot of people have a hard time distinguishing, okay, who's Scott Borchetta? Who's Scooter Braun? Does Taylor hate them?
Jessi:What did they do? Right? The biggest difference is Scott Borchetta, she had a 15 year personal and professional relationship with. He was like a father figure to her. Okay?
Jessi:He owned Big Machine Records. He's the one that got her signed, got her started. Scooter Braun was never involved with Taylor Swift, not one bit. They ran in the same circles. There's a lot with that we don't know, and I'm gonna get to that, but I'm gonna start with Scott Borchetta because he's the important one here.
Jessi:Okay? So in 2004, Scott Borchetta received a well put together package from Taylor Swift. She included, I think, a demo and her Abercrombie and Fitch ad and just it was just like a well put together package. Right?
Anna:And if you're thinking Abercrombie and Fitch, yes, we will cover that in Swifty 101. So we are still I mean, we're grabbing tons of notes, watching tons of interviews. But, yes, before Taylor signed as a music artist, she was a Abercrombie pitch model.
Jessi:Yep. Yep. And at that time, Scott Borchata was working at DreamWorks Nashville and United Music Group Nashville. Okay? He'd been there, I think, about 7 years.
Jessi:So on 112 of 04, 112, that's where I think all the 112 things started. That's the day Taylor Swift came into his office and they physically met for the first time, and she played for him. So it was just her and her manager at the time, not her parents. And she played a couple songs for him, and one of them was Picture to Burn. And he looked at her, and he said, that's a hit song.
Jessi:And she's like, really? Really? What? You know how Taylor you know? Especially a 14 she's 14 at this time.
Jessi:14 years old.
Anna:Incredible.
Jessi:Right. So he said, yeah. That's a hit song. So he wrote down in his notebook that day that he was going to watch her at the Bluebird Cafe 2 nights later, which would be November 4, 2004. So Scott Borchetta, and we're not talking about Scooter Braun right now.
Jessi:Scott Borchetta explains at that time that country music in 2004, the demographic was 25 year old women to 55 year old women. Right? So that was, yeah, that was kind of the demographic of of what they were aiming toward. So Taylor being 14, there was a lot of, you know, people that because and we'll go through this in SWIFTI 101, but she was actually already assigned to a different agency. They just weren't weren't working with her very well because of the demographic.
Jessi:They were they didn't feel like there was a place for a 14 year old. Yep. So, so he goes to see her at the Bluebird Cafe, and he pulled her aside with her parents after that performance. And he said, basically, because he was at DreamWorks United Music, I can introduce you to all the CEOs and executives that you want right now at this at this company and see what happens, but I'm leaving. I'm not gonna be here.
Jessi:I am going to start my own agency called Big Machine Records. So if you can wait for me in 1 year, then you have a record deal.
Anna:K? Yep.
Jessi:So he said at the time that she kinda looked at him like he was crazy and, you know, he didn't really expect to hear from her. 2 weeks later, he gets a call, and it's Taylor herself, not a manager, not her mom, not her dad. And she says, Scott, I'm gonna go with you. I'm gonna wait here.
Anna:Wow.
Jessi:Mhmm. That's how much she trusts him. That's how much of a bond that happened right away with Scott Borchetta and Taylor Swift. In the fall of 2,005, she signed with Big Machine Records and Scott Borchetta at age 15. This went on to have a 15 year relationship with Scott Borchetta, Okay?
Jessi:He was a father figure to her. I believe they loved each other deeply. I mean, they had thanksgivings together, Christmases together. They were like family. He was her mentor.
Jessi:He gave her advice. There was trust. There was family. There was help. There was I mean, it was imagine how closely she had to work with him.
Jessi:Right?
Anna:Well, and she was his biggest artist as well. Right? Like, she was not a small fish in a big pond in this relationship. And so, he probably had a lot of reason to, you know, stick by her and and make her, part of his priorities.
Jessi:Yeah, he cultivated, I mean, obviously Taylor's so talented on her own, but he cultivated that. I mean, he's the one who gave her the confidence and helped her get there and achieve her dreams.
Anna:You know? And he took a chance on her as far as what you were saying about the demographics of country music and what people assumed would work. Like, you know, we'll I'm assuming at some point talk, if not in this episode, about you know, there she openly talked about some frictions of decision making even up until the 1989 era and things like that where she felt like her label, which would include Scott, was, resistance to some of the changes that she wanted to make. But in these early stages specifically, and then, of course, you know, the foundation was there, he was a huge part of that chance and letting her kinda be different, honestly.
Jessi:Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, Big Machine Records is very much a country label. I mean, based out of Nashville, country artist.
Anna:Toby Keith was actually an original, cofounder, but then I think he left pretty quickly. Rest in peace, obviously, with code Toby Keith. But, he, you know, he's a country man to his core as well.
Jessi:Yeah. Definitely. So when she obviously, her first three records debut, Fearless, Speak Now, all country records, Fearless, 1 album of the year for Scott and Big Machine Records. And then, yeah, I think the frictions might have started a little bit during the red 1989, and then kind of concluded with the rep era, which was the last album she did with Big Machine Records and Scott Borchetta. But there was some frictions of, does she stay in country?
Jessi:Does she go to pop? But, ultimately, I think he was her biggest cheerleader
Anna:Mhmm. Through that.
Jessi:I mean, because nothing could get past it had to get past him.
Anna:Right?
Jessi:Yeah.
Anna:I mean, it wouldn't have happened if he didn't want it to, if he really wanted to strong-arm it. And that's where I think for his perspective, this is why you can't always have yes people around you. You know, you gotta have people who are looking at things differently and saying no even if in the end, you know, it goes the way that they don't expect. So, yeah, I'm sure from his perspective, the pop integration with some of the tracks from Red and then, of course, the full pop 1989, was probably scary because that's not what he had built the brand off of.
Jessi:Right. Yeah. So it was a chance he was taking too. But what I want everybody to know out of this the most is that she trusted him with her life, her tours, her career, her albums, the advice he was giving her. And I'm gonna get into, like I said, part 3 is lyrical analysis, and I will tell you guys what songs I think are about Scott Borchetta, because you don't have a 15 year relationship like that with somebody and then a falling out and not write about it.
Jessi:You know? She's written
Anna:about it. Tons, tons.
Jessi:Yeah. Yeah. And we'll get into that next week. But that's kind of the main thing that I wanted you guys to know about Borchetta is that there is such a history, a detailed, complicated, long, loving history there that ultimately ended in betrayal. Okay?
Jessi:All right, Now we're gonna talk about Scott Braun. So there are 2 Scotts, that's why they get a little bit mixed up. Scott Braun goes by Scooter Braun, which is what you probably know him as. Okay? So Scooter Braun met Taylor Swift and Scott Borchetta in 2010 when his client, Justin Bieber, opened up for Taylor during the fearless tour.
Anna:His client so was he like Scott in a record label? Like, wasn't he a manager? Like, can you explain the difference there?
Jessi:Yep. So he over he was a manager. Okay? And he worked with he was the cofounder of TQ Ventures, Mythos Studios, and these are just, like business ventures he's had his hands in at different points in time.
Anna:Okay.
Jessi:He's cofounder of esports team a 100 Thieves. So we're gonna talk about that with analysis because she's used thieves several times. Yeah. King of thieves. Spider Boy, Scooter Braun, king of thieves.
Jessi:CEO of HYBE America. Obviously, Ithaca Holdings LLC, that's when the masters happen, and I'll talk about that later. But he's most known for managing Bieber, Ariana Grande, Kanye West, Karlie Kloss, Demi Lovato. So he was a star manager, basically.
Anna:Yep.
Jessi:Master of spin, if you will. After this meeting that they had, like, I mean, just meeting them, you know, not not a business meeting. It was just they met because Bieber was selected to open for her on the fearless tour. Scooter Braun said that that started a friendship with Taylor and Borchetta, but Taylor has never described Scooter Braun as ever having a friendship with him or even being friendly with him, honestly.
Anna:So when he said that that was when the friendship started, is that something that he said kind of after a lot of this fallout in a way to paint the picture? Or when when did he say that that friendship started?
Jessi:Around 2010, 2011. But this is where this is where it gets weird because it kind of splinters off in a way because no one really knows what Scooter Braun's role was with Big Machine Records and Scott Borchetta and Taylor Swift, because there is no ties that I know of there. The only thing that I'm theorizing that could probably happen and made a fallout was maybe he wanted to manage Taylor because he was a manager, and she'd said no. I I don't know. That's not a true statement.
Jessi:I mean, that's not fact. That's just what I'm what I'm thinking because there's really not a lot that we know about Scooter other than Taylor has called him a manipulative bully who will do whatever he can to get what he wants from people. And that the only time Scott Borchetta has ever heard her talk about Scooter Braun was when she was crying. So we don't know the specifics of what he did to bully. We don't know what he did to manipulate.
Jessi:But something happened. Something went down.
Anna:Yeah. Isn't there the instance when Justin Bieber posted, hey, Taylor. What's up? Or whatever, and during the rep era downfall?
Jessi:Do you
Anna:know the specifics of that? Mm-mm. Let me look it up real quick. In 2016, on August 2nd, so in the midst of the cancel Taylor Swift movement. He so Justin Bieber posted, FaceTiming with Kanye West.
Anna:Yep. And Scooter Braun's in this. So he literally, the comment just says the, like, caption of the post says, Taylor Swift, what up? So this was during all of the drop. And so it's it's Justin Bieber.
Anna:It's just half of his face. And then in the little square in the top corner, because it's a Face Time, you could see Kanye, Scooter, and then I don't know who the other person is. But, so that would be one example of bullying that we are familiar with. And then, of course, the punked episode, which we'll talk about in Swifty 101, which was Justin Bieber being the host of punked for a season instead of Ashton Kutcher for those who are international. I'm sure this is an international show, but punked was kind of a prank show.
Anna:And so Justin Bieber being the host, he pranked Taylor Swift. And Scooter is briefly seen in that episode, so we know he was there for it. And Taylor was in tears, like, no doubt.
Jessi:It was sad. It was terrible what they did. They I mean, she they they were, like, shooting off fireworks into the ocean, and they had her push a button to shoot off some fireworks. And it hit a yacht and caught it on fire. And then there was a bride and groom that swam to the shore because they were on the yacht getting married.
Jessi:And it was all they were all actors, Yep.
Anna:Yep. Firing cannons at your yacht. And, yeah, and she just was traumatized. I mean, I think 2012 I mean, 2000 It
Jessi:was red era. Yeah.
Anna:It was she was young. She was in her early twenties, and you know she's paying it. She's probably looking around for her managers, her dad, her parents, and, was surrounded by people who didn't support, I'm assuming. So and she played it off fine. Like, you wouldn't know, but looking back, seeing Scooter for, I don't know, 5 seconds in that whole clip puts things together for me as far as, as far as an example of the bullying that actually did maybe get captured on camera.
Jessi:Well, and I I mean, who is the common denominator with a lot of the fallouts between some of these people? Right? Kanye had Scooter as a manager. And, obviously, we know what happened with Taylor and Kanye. If you don't know, we are gonna get into it in Swifty 101.
Jessi:But then Justin Bieber Justin Bieber was friends with Taylor. He dated Selena.
Anna:Yeah. Well, in Scooter so we know that Scooter obviously managed Justin going back to the earlier days. I believe he took over as Kanye's manager in 2016.
Jessi:Yeah. I think it was just brief, though. Like, I don't know how long he managed Kanye, but I don't think he could handle it
Anna:for real. Not. But still, if but 20 sixteen's when Kanye and Kim did the whole, you know, doctoring of the phone call and the the real takedown. And so for him to have been Kanye's manager at that time is again, to Taylor, it doesn't even have to be Scooter doing the doctoring or anything like that. It's his clients, who are bullying her.
Anna:And so he's not managing them very well. I mean, come on. You're the classroom with all the naughty kids.
Jessi:Which makes me wonder if he didn't get what he wanted from Taylor Swift, which would have been possibly to be her manager. And so she was friends with Justin Bieber, and then they had the falling out. Scooter was involved in that. Scooter was involved with the Kanye thing. But one of the biggest ones was Karlie Kloss, her best friend during the 1989 era.
Jessi:So I think that falling out was largely because she was managed by Scooter Braun, and then there was the whole yacht boat picture of Carly on the boat with Scooter. And it just wasn't good.
Anna:And in it's time to go, she's saying when the words of a sister come back and whisper the proof that she was not, That could be that something was said to Scooter that you know, we have the song closure, which a lot of people assume is about that friendship. I believe there's probably lyrics of why you assume it. But I say all that to say, yeah, she had a best friend, who is no longer best friend, and there's obviously more theories beyond that. But the association with Scooter at that time and the use of betrayal and some of the themes that I'm sure we'll talk about in the lyrical portion of this, it's very clear that Carly was, like, collateral damage of that fallout that happened in 2016 with her relationship to Scooter.
Jessi:Yeah. And we do know, though, throughout this, and we don't know why, that Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun did have a good relationship because of what happens next. So in talking about Borchetta and Braun, from 2010 when they met and started that friendship, to 2019 when Scott Borchardis sold his company, Big Machine Records, and all of Taylor's work to Scooter Braun, which was the worst case scenario for Taylor, we don't know what their relationship was in those years. Was it professional? Was it just personal?
Jessi:I mean, that's a long time too. That's 9 years that we don't know about. We don't know. The only thing we know is the sale on June 30th, 2019 that happened. And their little magazine expose where they're toasting each other with cocktails and talking about how you know, Braun now owns the record company and Taylor's Work.
Anna:I'm gonna have to read that one. I don't think I've read that. So that's gonna be an interesting one. I'll have to scope that out because I bet there is a lot of context there. The other thing too with the sale, I think is important to note for everybody if you're not familiar.
Anna:You know, record contracts are typically baked in years over time. Right? Like, you don't each year get to renew your contract. There's usually much longer term agreements. And so Taylor I mean, was it originally when she signed that she was gonna be with them for 6 albums?
Anna:That was the original plan?
Jessi:So I don't know in the contract how many albums were required of her, but I know her contract expired in November of 2018.
Anna:Yep. And that's when she was on the rep tour. Correct? Yep. Yep.
Anna:Finishing, maybe.
Jessi:Yeah. And that's ultimately when she decided to leave, but we're gonna get into that on the part 2. I really just wanted to get out the difference between Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun. So the biggest thing for me with Scooter Braun is, like I said, we don't know much. We don't know much of what happened between 2010 and 2019.
Jessi:Taylor has talked about it, but has used the same language every time, bullying, manipulation, always getting what he wants. But she gives us us a little more glimpses into it through the lyrics, and that will be in the next part of this as well. Karma did come back around for Scooter. As you guys know, this past summer, he lost many, many of his clients, including Demi Lovato, Ariana Grande, Jay Balvin, Justin Bieber. That's still kind of under
Anna:under Justin Bieber is not as clear. Even like Idina Menzel, who obviously Yes. Frozen, a big Broadway actress. And I don't think she was in that same fallout in the fall, but in that year, she also had left, I think, in January, February. So there's definitely, more than meets the eye there, I would assume.
Jessi:Yep. Something's going something's going down with him for sure. He even put out a tweet around the time that said, I no longer manage myself. Like, did he think he was being funny? Like, I just don't get him at all.
Jessi:And I think that you can kind of see the ick that Taylor got from him when you read interviews with him or watch interviews with him. I immediately get the ick.
Anna:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. His slimy slimy, rich, white boy vibes.
Jessi:Yeah. Slimy snake.
Anna:Yeah. Snaky, sneaky, sneaky. But you know what? Snakes are cool now, and women can be snakes. And it's our rep era vibe to be
Jessi:a sneaky snake. Scooter Braun also, had a 1 season show called Karma, which is very interesting. I think the year was that it aired was, like, 2019 or 2020.
Anna:Wait. I'm sorry. This is why we're doing this episode. Did you say Scooter or Scott? Which one?
Anna:Scooter Braun. Scooter Braun. Yeah. Okay. I when you said it, I pictured Scott Borchetta, so that is why it's important for us to clarify who's who.
Jessi:Yeah, so that's very interesting to me that he would have a show called Karma, and it involved kids, and they had to do wilderness stuff and vote each other off islands, some kind of survival show, but they each had colors. And one of the colors was, like, bright karma orange. You can't find much about this show. I think there is one streaming service, very obscure, that you can watch the show, but you can you can see the trailer on YouTube. So you guys should look that up, Scooter Braun Karma.
Jessi:It was obviously axed after 1 one show, 1 one season, but, I just find it interesting. But, yeah, he's very it's a lot of it with him is obscure. We don't know the ins and outs of what he was even doing around Big Machine Records and Scott Borchetta and Taylor Swift. Like, I don't know if they ran in the same circles. I'm imagining that they did.
Jessi:If there were any deals made or anything like that, we we don't know about it. So that's why Taylor said on June 30, 2019, when Big Machine Records was sold with her work to Scooter Braun, that she was basically betrayed by Scott Borchetta because every conversation she'd had with Scott Borchetta about Scooter Braun was her in tears. So it was her worst case scenario that now this man had his grimy little pause on her work. Mhmm. And her
Anna:best case scenario was to buy the music on her own. And I believe there was a deal where if she stayed, she could have recorded more and earned back as she recorded more, which is not what she wanted. Right? She wanted to just own it or buy it outright. And so, you know, there's there's many scenarios that could have played out.
Anna:Best case would have been she would have just been able to buy the music, buy the rights to her original masters. Worst, this is probably, honestly, I mean, I don't know who else could have been worse to buy it for her. Yeah. She's yeah.
Jessi:She said worst case scenario. But, yeah, I am am gonna get into that in masters in the second part of this. I will talk to you guys more about the what the new contract said and why she denied it from Big Machine Records, like, during the rap era, and more of the falling out with Scott Borchetta and the betrayal. But it's just what I want in your guys' minds right now is just think of that family friend that gave you so much advice, and they knew each other so well that with Scott Borchetta and Taylor Swift, that he also knew what buttons to push, and he knew her weaknesses.
Anna:Yeah. Well, he also knew her secrets Yes. I'm assuming. Right? Like, this is I don't even know how you relate it to somebody.
Anna:You mentioned, like, family friend. Right?
Jessi:Mhmm.
Anna:I don't even know if there's anybody in my life that's not my parents, my brother, my husband that I would have that much foundational trust with over, I mean, almost 2 decades.
Jessi:The only thing I can really think of that people might relate it to is, like, a stepdad that they're really close to. That's true.
Anna:That's true. There's probably there's probably other scenarios outside of my life that would make sense. Yeah.
Jessi:Yeah. And I know her situation is different because, obviously, she was an artist and he was her mentor. He was her he was her everything. Like, I mean, when you know, I will get into this in lyrical analysis, but think about I think tolerated is completely about him. I sit and watch you.
Jessi:You're much older and wiser. She's sitting and watching him read her work and just waiting to see if it's good enough. Like, we will get into that during their co analysis, but
Anna:I'm gonna reject that. I know it's probably true, but I only choose to believe that tolerated is about a fucking divorce, which Taylor has not gone through. But, yeah, I bet I bet it probably has more to do with that, especially, I mean, we're gonna talk about Joe. Joe's not older and wiser. He's younger.
Anna:Right. But, yeah, I think I think you're probably right. And I think she's written a lot of songs like that where, maybe some of the lyrics or the original, lyrics are about her own situation, but then she kind of marries it with something that's a little bit more broad stroked, like, tolerate it, which is more I mean, anybody could understand that. You can even look at a father figure and say that, you know, or a or a lover or a friend.
Jessi:Yeah. She makes it relatable. So at its core, I think it's about Borchetta. So she lays the table with the fancy shit for him, you know, gives him all her best work, and, you know, taking up too much space and time. This is when in the rep era, and I'll get into this with the next part, that he started to cultivate younger artists, and she was no longer in his top five.
Jessi:But then again, she can make it sound like a divorce or like a breakup too, so that people can relate to it. Because no one can really relate to a falling out with their record executive, right?
Anna:Yeah, exactly. So it's
Jessi:the meaning. It's the double meaning. And when I get into lyrical analysis, I'll show you how she layers things to make it seem relatable, to make it have double meanings.
Anna:Yeah. And I think too with the lyrics, which, again, we'll get into, Scott is definitely gonna be more of the lyrics that are tearing apart in true heartbreak. She felt the true heartbreak. She lost somebody. You were about to say, think of your family friend, think of somebody versus the dickhead down the street who deserves a little slap in the face for being a jerk.
Anna:Okay? Right. I don't have any neighbors that I wanna slap. That is just a metaphor that I threw out there on a whim. But I will say when you think about the songs, like, vigilante shit and stuff like that, so maybe that could be a little homework for y'all is if we wanna start, or if you wanna start between now and the next episode when we talk about the second half, really listening to the lyrics and trying to analyze.
Anna:Because we're really gonna be talking about likely folklore evermore midnights. Do you have anything from, like, Lover, 1989 that would really
Jessi:No. Just I mean, maybe The Man, and I think that's just an overall like, she's taking control of her first album and her work. But well
Anna:and I well, I will say that would make sense because she okay. So she left big machine between reputation and lover. Lover came out in 2019. Her work was sold after lover was already to production. Right?
Anna:Like, it wasn't
Jessi:no. It was sold, Lover came out on August 23rd, and, her work was sold June 30th. So just a couple months.
Anna:She has said it takes a couple months. So that that would make so I say already to production. Like, she would have already turned it in because she even just said recently with midnights and torture poets that she started torture poets as soon as she finished midnights, and she said, which is usually a couple months before we release or a few months. I don't know exactly the word she used. So yeah.
Anna:So Lover was already, like, clocked before the betrayal happened in the sense that, like, the music on lover could be about the independence or, like you said, the man and those types of things. But in reality, the actual, the actual tear apart between her and Scott Briscetta, something that was maybe gonna end gracefully and amicably, came out right before lover. And so, obviously, those, those records that came after which we folklore, Evermore, and Midnight are gonna be the ones that probably have the best, examples of this.
Jessi:Yes. And I think folklore and evermore, even though she says it was, you know, a journey into non nonfiction, there's very much fictional parts of it, to her life, and I think that those were great healing albums for her during that time. But, yeah, when I start talking about the lyrical analysis between Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun, I kind of like to describe it as it's almost like Scooter Braun gets those glitter gel pen songs, and Scott Borchetta is more like the quill pen, betrayal, grief, death, sadness. And when you're talking about Scooter Braun, it's revenge, anger, mad women. Mad women.
Anna:That's not really glitter gel pen, but I get you. I get you. Yeah. It's like vigilante shit. I will say, when it comes to the storytelling within folklore and evermore, what you'd said earlier about, like, yeah, none of us can really relate to our record label producer leaving us and causing betrayal.
Anna:I think that might be even why there's a lot more fiction and storytelling because it is how Taylor could put it into, a album that made sense, that wasn't just so me, me, me, me, me. This is just about this one situation. But, also, she understands as such an empath and a beautiful songwriter and poet and such. She understands the words and the feelings and the betrayal that she feels goes far beyond her scenario. So taking that pain and then writing story that is maybe a little bit more generalized, would be how she could take that pain and and pay it forward and gives people back another, example of healing.
Jessi:Absolutely. And, you know, when we get into this next week, it'll be a lot more, but, you know, she's gone and rerecorded those first 6 albums, and she's, you know, said that she's gotten to go back and find new songs and this and that. But you also have to think about how traumatic this process probably has been for her in a way to have to redo their her work that she lost. So I would not be surprised if there's some songs on tortured poets that that's about this situation as well, the rerecording process, betrayal, losing her work. I just wouldn't be surprised.
Anna:Yeah. That's a really valid point. And so we will get further into the next steps. We're gonna do a background of the masters, the whole timeline of the the selling of it, the decision to rerecord, all of that on top of some lyrical analysis behind the situation on the next episode. And fun fact, guys, we're gonna drop the very next weekly episode.
Anna:Instead of dropping it on a Friday, we are dropping it on Thursday. So that would be good god. What date? March 28th will be the next episode, and that is because we have a very, very special interview coming out on Friday. So we're gonna do a double drop next week.
Anna:We're gonna do them back to back days. But let's go ahead, Jesse, and shift into our new game. So one thing that Jesse and I are super excited about as we head into tortured poets, we are 5 weeks out. So there are 5 episodes, starting with this one is we are going to draft songs. So imagine in gym class when you're all standing lined up and you have 2 team captains and they pick their team 1 by 1, that is what we're gonna do, and we are gonna make a fantasy team of tortured poets' songs.
Anna:So with the extra bonus tracks, there are a total of 20 songs available. So by the end of the 5 weeks, we will each have 10 songs on our roster. And the goal is that you will be able to listen to the whole album, go to our website, and vote on whose team is better. And, obviously, we don't know what these songs sound like. We don't know what the bests are gonna be, so we are going solely off the names and what we expect.
Anna:Maybe the track numbers are something that we feel is lucky. So, each week, we will each choose 2. I'm gonna let Jesse draft the very first pick, and the way that becomes even is each week will like, I'll go first next week. She'll go first the following week, and then I'll get to go first twice at the very end because it's kind of an odd number of weeks. And so that way I get a little bit of an advantage on the tail end, but really getting the first pick is like a really big advantage.
Anna:So well, yeah. I'm I'm I know I think I know what you're gonna pick first. So, and if you're wrong or if I'm wrong then I would be surprised,
Jessi:but Jesse,
Anna:looking at the list of songs, and guys we'll have this online too, we'll keep a list of what we've drafted, what's remaining, so you can kind of follow along. It will be at ts podnetwork.com backslash draft, d r a f t. Okay? So, Jesse, you get very first pick. Who's gonna be the first song on your team?
Jessi:Okay. So I'm really, really excited about this, you
Anna:guys. Yeah.
Jessi:Alright. So I think I know what Anna thinks I'm gonna pick, but I am gonna go with a song that I have said before in an episode was my favorite song title, and that's the black dog.
Anna:Okay. Do you know what? I thought you were gonna pick a track 5 because track fives are, like, a shoo in. Mhmm. So I thought if you pick track 5, I would pick the black dog because I knew you wanted the black dog, and I know it's gonna be really good.
Anna:I know it's gonna be really good. Okay.
Jessi:I'm just drawn. I'm drawn to the black dog somehow, you guys. I don't know why. I don't I don't know why. We'll see.
Anna:Well and the other thing with the black dog too is, like, it's the last one that she released. Like, it's it's special to her, so you're right. It's it's gonna be good, and I really wanted that song. I want them all. Okay.
Anna:Well, I would not be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to take the track 5, which is gonna be so long London. And if you guys don't know, track fives are very important songs to Taylor. She chooses them wisely. You're on your own, kid, all too well, my tears ricochet. That's another track vibe.
Anna:So, anyway, I choose so long London. So we each get one more pick for this episode, and then we get to stew on it for a week. So what is your second pick of this week?
Jessi:Well, first of all, damn it because that would have been my second pick, obviously, because it's a track 5. But I do think so long London is going to link somehow to London boy off of Yeah. So
Anna:good pick. Good pick.
Jessi:Okay. My pick is going to be track 6, but daddy, I love him. Because my favorite Disney movie is The Little Mermaid, and I have done several TikToks connecting the little mermaid, which came out in 1989 to Taylor. So I think that this is going to connect somehow.
Anna:Oh, man. I want I, like, literally just wanna grab up 5 right now.
Jessi:I know.
Anna:I want to do l o m l because what what the fuck is she hiding in that name? We don't know what it stands for. We assume it's love of my life. It's the only one that is an acronym, and it's all lowercase. Like, she's is there something in there?
Anna:So I really hope that it, is a star player on my draft team here.
Jessi:And that's a track 12?
Anna:That is track 12. Yes. That is track 12. So, Jesse and I have taken 4 of the 20 songs this week. We will continue to do this at the end of each episode, so make sure you guys stick around.
Anna:And as we wrap up, I do wanna say that we are so grateful for this past week. If you have not given us reviews, please do. If you don't subscribe on YouTube, please do. The momentum, guys, is so strong right now. It's actually freaking me out if I'm being for real.
Anna:But keep it going. Like, I love being freaked out. Like, let's let's keep growing this. Keep sharing it with your friends. And even listening to the end like this helps us.
Anna:That's one of the ways that they calculate the rankings. So it's not just number of views, but also how many percentage get listened through all the way through. So if you're still here, you're doing a great job.
Jessi:And, also, if you guys wanna leave in the comments to what songs off TTPD you're drawn to.
Anna:Yeah. Definitely. And take this idea and do it with your friends. We're just gonna keep track on a notebook, and then we'll put it on the website all fancy for you, but definitely challenge a friend. Start drafting stuff.
Anna:And then that way, whenever it's all said and done, I mean, it's it's just good fun, but it'll, it'll be interesting to see. We've had a lot of time to stew on these songs. We don't usually get this much lead time with the track list, so it'll be good. Okay, guys. And as a reminder, next week, we have 2 episodes dropping.
Anna:So mark your calendars because our regular episode that you are used to hearing, which is going to include the second half of the Scooter Braun, Scott Borchetta master class that Jesse has spent 16 hours researching and pulling together notes for. That episode will come out on Thursday. So we're giving you a little early drop for our regularly recorded episode that will be on March 28th, and then come back on Friday, March 29th. Huge interview. We are so excited, and I'll give you a little peep or we've already recorded it, and we know it's fucking good.
Anna:So super, super thrilled that this person gave us their time to do an interview. And we're just a few degrees away from Taylor with this one. And they are so fantastic to have given us, an exclusive little interview. So, that will be dropping on our regular schedule Friday. So Thursday Friday of next week, come on back.
Anna:We've got so much content, and then we will be starting the Swifty 101 filming soon. So we're not even there yet. We've got a lot for you next week, but then just kind of hang tight because that has a lot of research going into it that we definitely do not wanna skimp on. So stay with us. We appreciate you.
Anna:And as always, we love you guys. Bye.
